Ready to interview the editors, I
stepped into Post Production, a world far different than where I had just come
from in the Writer’s Office.
Sitting in each editing bay working on multiple monitors and complicated
equipment adorned with different buttons and toggles that would well, make
anyone intimidated, were talented editors Barbara Gerard, Kristin Windell, and
Imelda Betiong. With big smiles, they were enthusiastic to share their wisdom,
experiences, and creative insight on how they craft Brothers and Sisters to its final polished form that we all love
and watch every Sunday.
Toni: When did you
all first know you wanted to become an editor?
Imelda: (Laughs) Well, it kind of just fell into my lap.
Kristin: When I took film classes in college, I hated being
in front of the camera and that was something I knew for sure. I didn’t want to
be an actor of any sort, but I did enjoy the whole process of it. Then I found
out that I was good at editing.
Barbara: I got my first glimpses in college … but it wasn’t
until I was a Director’s Assistant, and he brought me along to editing sessions
that I decided editing was what I wanted to do.
Toni: What about
being an editor appealed to you?
Barbara: It’s the combination of working on such minute
details while also keeping the overall story at the forefront. Well, that and watching the story “come
to life.”
Kristin: I like that I have my own world. I like that you’re
kind of at the end of the line and whereas the writers have their blank page,
this is the opposite side of it.
This is where the stuff has been written, has been shot, and this is
where it all comes together.
Toni: So the editing
room is actually where you create the story and take the pieces and form it
into an emotional experience…
Kristin: Exactly, what you see is obviously a result of the
lines written and the way it’s written and directed or acted, but you can
definitely carve it and make it become someone else’s story, like take the A
story and make it the B story.
Toni: How did you all
get your start and learn your craft?
Imelda: Well, I started off interning on Angus, a feature film and then I was an
assistant working on the TV show Alias.
Kristin: When I came to Hollywood, it was literally the time
when the Avid was first taking off. You can equate it now to when the digital
camera first started happening because at that moment people were like “No that
will never happen, I like film, I like to hold the picture and no one will ever
do digital pictures” Cut to ten years later, now we only do digital. So at the time I came to
Hollywood, it was the same thing with editing. The digital editing was happening, and old-school editors
were like “That will never catch on, that’s not how the craft is.” And I just happened to be here and in a
place where I could learn…so when the next job came up that needed an Avid
assistant, I knew it. I really was at the right place at the right time.
Barbara: I invited my boss’s favorite freelance editor out
for a drink to talk about editing.
A couple months later, she offered me a three-month gig assisting on a
low-budget documentary. For maybe
thirty seconds I considered the security I’d be giving up, then jumped at the
chance.
As for learning my craft, as an assistant I spent a fair
amount of time learning what my editors needed, and making sure they had it
without having to ask. I always
watched the dailies rather than simply organized them. I also watched all the different cuts
that went out, and the interactions between Editors/Directors/Producers. When I started cutting scenes I took
every note my Editor gave me seriously … and listened to why they were asking
for those changes.
Toni: What
shows/projects did you work on before B&S?
Barbara: The ones you’re likely to have heard of are The Pretender, Dawson’s Creek, Everwood, and What About Brian.
Imelda: Before B&S,
I was working on Alias.
Kristin: Yeah, both Imelda and I worked on Alias together. But I first started at
Roger Corman and then from there I got on a show called Lizzie McGuire, which was on the Disney Channel.
Toni: Oh yeah, I
remember that show!
Kristin: Do you watch it?
Toni: (Laughing) Not
any more! Like back in 8th grade maybe.
Kristin: (Laughing) So I worked on Lizzie, and then after Lizzie,
Imelda and I kind of shared jobs back when we were assistants. If I needed to
leave, she would fill in for me and vice versa. And she got on a job on Alias but she needed to take 2 weeks
off, so I came in for those 2 weeks. And then the other assistant needed to
take a month off, so then I filled in for her during her month off. And by that
time, they really loved me and hired me onto the show. So then I went to Alias, and that’s when they bumped me up
to editor. And after Alias, I did a
show called Invasion and now Brothers and Sisters.
ABC's Alias, a very different show to edit
Toni: From a creative
standpoint, how were these shows/projects different than editing for B&S?
Barbara: The Pretender
was action-driven and mysterious.
Montages propelled the story rather than finish it. Dawson’s Creek and Everwood
were youth-oriented dramas. But
overall, narrative drama requires the same editorial skill set: know your story, know your characters,
and know your audience.
Imelda: It’s different. This show has a lot of drama and
conflict. You have to know how to transform and transition with the actors. In
action, there’s so much more footage and so many more camera angles and it’s
hard to cut. You’re asking what
should I do here? What should I do
there? There’s a lot of choices.
(Big smile)
I love cutting comedy because I love to laugh. I’m in here
watching dailies and I think I am the only one laughing on the floor, and
everyone is like “What are you doing?” And I’m like…I’m laughing, they’re
making me laugh! I laugh more than I cry in here.
Kristin: Different genre. What I thought was great about Alias was that it had everything. It has
the action obviously. But it had a big dramatic story that was interesting. So
it was fun to work on because it was definitely action-packed, but it also had
strong characters. With Brothers and
Sisters, I just had the scene with Kevin and Nora after they had been mad
at each other for a while, and it was a really sweet scene so you want to stay
on the face of who is not necessarily saying the information, but who is
receiving it. Because it is more
interesting to see the reactions, those will require longer shots. But with an action sequence, if you
have a shot that’s more than a second, it’s going to look too slow or like it’s
in slow motion.
Toni: What is the day
in the life of a B&S editor like for you three?
Imelda: The day in the life for me is that I come in, watch
and cut the dailies. Once we’re done with the editor’s cut, there’s the
director’s cut. It’s definitely a collaborative effort. The producer and
director will come in and really tone and tighten it more, shaping it to what
the show is really about.
Kristin: It depends on the week, so I am waiting now for
what they shot last night to come in, then when that’s all in, I work scene by
scene and then it grows and grows and you start putting the whole thing
together and that’s the fun part because once the whole episode is together,
the things you thought worked in the script aren’t working.
Toni: And that’s when
you come into play!
Kristin: Yeah, and that’s where you shape the emotion of the
character that you want and then after that process is done, the director comes
in and make their cut. And then
Ken Olin comes in and works off the director’s cut and gets it to where he
wants the show.
Barbara: In my opinion, this is one of the best aspects of
editing: it always changes! When I’m in dailies, I can be
self-directed … I know what has to be done by when, but if I’m ADHD for an
afternoon, I have the freedom to stay late or come in early the next day when I
can focus. When I’m working with a
Director or Producer, or locking a show, their schedule is mine.
Exec. Producer and Director Ken Olin also plays David Caplan
Toni: In what ways
can editing choices affect the “little moments” between characters as well as
affect bigger story points? Are you paying attention to the expressions or
reaction of the characters?
Barbara: I like to think that this is our main job. As in life, the conversation propels
the story, but often it’s the non-verbal communication that clues us in on
what’s really going on. A scene
with multiple characters might have most of the dialogue between Character A
and B, but what they’re discussing directly influences C. If we don’t show C enough, it will be
harder for the audience to understand C’s motivation in subsequent scenes. If we just cut on dialogue we’re
providing a monologue, and that’s not nearly as interesting.
Kristin: The little moments that I love in our show are
generally after or before the director calls cut. When Michael Morris started directing, I said the minute you
want to call cut, count to ten in your head because when the scene is over and
you’re not saying cut, the actors will do something to fill the film and the
actors will go to crazy or just fill it with looks, smiles or tears. And I like
to see what’s there after the scene.
Imelda: When I watch dailies, I take a look at the script
and I say okay this scene is about this.
You really have to pay attention to dailies because the actors are so
good that they will give you something that you need. Like I’m going in my head, I need this shot, I need this
reaction. You always have to look for those moments and then use those
reactions to make the scene great!
Toni: So it creates
the chemistry?
Imelda: Yeah, and it’s hard sometimes rhythmically. Like
when I was an assistant on Alias, I didn’t
know how to build those moments and then I was working with Maryann Brandon, a
great editor, she would go “there’s something missing” and I could never figure
it out. And now I understand! I’ve been able to figure it out. She told me
something that I will never forget and which I tell everyone, “You control the
footage, it doesn’t control you.”
You can even create a moment without the moment even being
there. Ken is really great at that, he can create something out of nothing.
It’s there, you just have to find it!
Finding the little moments and reaction shots in "Time After Time"
Toni: And that’s why
you’re an editor. You make it happen!
What is the favorite part of the process for you all?
Imelda: When I started, I used to love dailies. You’re
alone in here, it’s just you and the screen. But now, I like collaborating and
figuring out why things didn’t work out the first time. Because you can totally
change something from it’s first cut.
Toni: You like the
challenge.
Imelda: Exactly, I like the challenge. Okay this didn’t
work, how about this way. It’s frustrating, but exhilarating once you figure it
out.
Barbara: I enjoy every step, but collaborating with the
Producers is the most interesting because that’s where the episode really gets
shaped into what it will be.
Kristin: Yeah, I like all the parts of cutting and
locking an episode. I like
getting the dailies and putting together each
scene and then watching
it grow act by act and finally come together in
one great episode. I
also like the collaborative process of working
through the footage
with Ken and Michael Morris and rearranging the
order to best suit the story
and plot points.
Toni: Do you have a
favorite Walker? Which Walker do you most identity with the most?
Barbara: I think as an editor you have to identify with all
the characters. It helps me
understand their motivations and find the moments that best support their
characters.
Imelda: I like all of them because it’s a family, they all
love to tease each other. I think it’s that whole thing about being able to
tease each other and love each other at the same time.
Kristin: I think I identify
myself most with Nora...if anyone. My kids are seven and three, but I can project myself a little
bit into Nora for the future. I love all of Sally's scenes when
she has a heart-to-heart with one of her kids. My favorite is Episode
316 when Kitty is freaking out about Robert not being there for the birth of
their son, and Nora gives Kitty a pep talk outside the hospital door. I just think
Nora's character is so universal to all moms, and you
can't get a better actor than Sally Field.
Our favorite matriarch, Nora
Toni: What has been
your favorite episode to edit this season? What has been the most challenging?
Barbara: “Time After Time” was my favorite episode. Most challenging was “Almost Normal,”
when Kitty told her family she had cancer.
Kristin: So far, my favorite episode this season is Last Tango in
Pasadena. I
liked that it was such a fun episode and there
were some dance numbers. It was just different from the usual dinner
party scenes we do. It also didn't
hurt either that Giles was in a lot of the scenes.
Imelda: I think “The Wig Party” where Kitty shaves her head is
definitely my favorite favorite!
But I think each episode has a little something I really love about it.
The most challenging? I think each one is the most challenging (laughing)
because it’s always different and the challenging part is usually all the
dinner scenes and parties. There
are just so many characters in them!
A touching moment between Kitty and Sarah
Toni: Right, you’re
like…whose reactions or expressions do I catch now and at what moments!
Imelda: Yeah, it’s a lot! Like one example last year, the
episode where Robert gets a heart attack…the first draft didn’t have any dinner
scenes because I always go ‘Okay so are there any dinner scenes in here?” I
always have to psyche myself up for this big scene! And so when I checked, I thought okay great there’s no
dinner scene, but then the next day I get the revisions and I’m like “Oh my
gosh!”
Toni: (Laugh) a
dinner scene!
Imelda: An 8 page dinner scene!
(They both laugh)
Another infamous Walker dinner scene
Toni: Finally, what
advice do you all have for aspiring editors?
Imelda: (Bursts out laughing) I’m still searching for my own
advice! I think you just have to have fun, and I am still learning a lot about
my craft. For me, how I cut a lot of the time, is how I want to watch it. I
always tell the assistant Kerry, “Tell the story and have fun with it.”
Barbara: Decide what type of entertainment you enjoy most:
narrative, situation comedies, documentaries, reality, talk shows, small films,
blockbusters, etc. Focus on
assisting on those types of shows.
Obviously at times you’ll have to take whatever job is available, but
after awhile it’ll show up in your attitude, your work, and eventually your
home life. Not to say that the
editing process in and of itself isn’t fun and challenging, just that it’s more
fulfilling when you’re helping tell the kind of stories you like.
Kristin: The advice I have for
aspiring editors is to work hard and pay your dues. Be willing to start at the bottom and
work your way up. Many people think they are entitled to be in the
cutting room because they learned Final Cut Pro. There's a lot more
that happens in the cutting room than just editing the footage. There is
a level of trust and pacing with story telling that Ken has in all of
us, something that has been earned over the last four seasons. And be
sure to never burn a bridge behind you. I've gotten every one of my
editing jobs by word of mouth and who I knew. My best example is that I
was hired on a show whose Executive Producer's wife was a PA for me ten years earlier...you
never know.
**********
The Final Cut...
A BIG thank you to Barbara, Imelda, and Kristin for taking
the time to give us the inside scoop on life as B&S editors. Thanks Ladies! And now, as of tonight, we can officially say another great season of B&S is behind us. But stay tuned...
